" Bach is smart enough to know better. "In this book Joscha Bach introduces Dietrich Dörner's PSI architecture and Joscha's implementation of the MicroPSI architecture. his ayn rand obsession is sad and, yes, unbearable. We begin by discussing AGI in general, adopting a pragmatic goal for its attainment. 2K Followers. in Cognitive Science from the University of Osnabrück and worked as a lecturer and researcher at Humboldt University of Berlin, MIT Media Lab, and the Harvard Program for Evolutionary Dynamics. Such transitions are not unprecedented during the evolution of life, but. Dark energy is literally information. Joscha Bach, Ph. And it's totally brutal. 2. Overall I agree with what you said, and I think you've been very compassionate with your understanding. . He. This was a very special one, especially given Bach's recent diss of Hoffman on Lex Fridmann (calling him a tenured dreamer or something similar). - Here's the rub: If you scroll down to the comment section of Kastrup's response post, there's an exchange between Kastrop and an anonymous account whom Kastrop adresses with "Joscha" and who sure sounds a whole lot like Joscha. "In Principles of Synthetic Intelligence Joscha Bach offers a new cognitive architecture that covers perhaps the broadest spectrum of phenomena accounted for to date by such architectures. 38:11 On the evidence of delaying technology leading to better outcomes. He is an artificial intelligence researcher that is sought out by people doing research to understand how the human mind works. How to have a life/career that makes future people take up your identity in the future and. He. Like. ““Dual” is another excellent entry in the category ‘movies for autistic people, by autistic people’ (and I am not being snarky) #inflightentertainment”Deitrich Dörner’s PSI theory (Dörner, 1999) and Joscha Bach’s MicroPSI implementation of PSI theory adds considerably to traditional cognitive architectures by incorporating drives (e. Wasn’t a good look. Joscha Bach (born 1973 in Weimar, East Germany) is a German artificial intelligence researcher and cognitive scientist focusing on cognitive architectures, mental representation, emotion, social modeling, and multi-agent systems. ago. 0195370678 9780195370676. Readers who enjoyed Principles of Synthetic Intelligence: Psi: An Architecture of Motivated Cognition (Oxford Series on Cognitive Models and Architectures) by. From the Foreword: "In this book Joscha Bach introduces Dietrich Dorner's PSI architecture and Joscha's. Only a simulation can be conscious. 106K subscribers in the samharris community. What is intelligence? What exactly does an IQ test measure? What are the similarities and differences between the structure of GPT-3 and the structure of the. He is an artificial intelligence researcher that is sought out by people doing research to understand how the human mind works. 5. Mathematics, banking, finance, and other professions closely adjacent were at the top of the list of most affected. Artificial Intelligence is our best bet to understand the nature of our mind, and how it can exist in this universe. 19 Istvan S. . Joscha Bach: Yes, but I suspect that’s also because consciousness, while it is important, is not as important as we think it is. playlist_add. he was on lex fridman's show a couple times, but because lex is a midwit & was left utterly dumbfounded, his appearances have been about trying to reiterate and reduce bach's words and opinions to lex's own limited. We need to hear more from builders and less from professional commentators. (00:00) – Introduction. Warning: gets a bit ugly - In the above linked article, Kastrop responds to one of Joscha's blog posts. Workshop Title: Systems Neuroscience and Deep Learning Approach to General Intelligence. " The Foundational Questions Ins. He sat down with Vance Crowe for a second tim. Gadi Singer, Joscha Bach, Tetiana Grinberg, Nagib Hakim, Phillip Howard, Vasudev Lal, Zev Rivlin: Thrill-K Architecture: Towards a Solution to the Problem of Knowledge Based Understanding. D. Read more. Title. و 315 قسمت دیگر از The Vance Crowe Podcast رایگان گوش دهید! هیچ ثبت نام و نصبی لازم نیست. Joscha Bach is an Artificial Intelligence researcher at MIT and Harvard who works and writes about cognitive architectures, mental representation, emotion, social modeling, and multi-agent systems. This is a summary of episode #101 of Lex Fridman’s AI Podcast — a conversation with Joscha Bach titled ‘. 21:26 GPT-3 uses brute force, not zero-shot learning, humans do ZSL 22:15 Extending the GPT-3 token context space. (?) “I find that most people serve practical needs. Joscha Bach is a rare mind. 12084 ( 2023 )As Joscha Bach would put it: Physical objects and beings cannot be conscious only the simulations those physical systems may run can. Play • 3 hr 1 min. CoRR abs/2303. Lex: "How do you know that!? Joscha: *says something even more profound. (07:15) – Life is hard. As with many visionaries, his theories and methods sometimes stirred the pot, leading to controversies and criticisms. Ouça Joscha Bach @plinz AI Researcher On Religion, Autism, Sci-fi Books And Parenting. Joscha Bach Harvard Program for Evolutionary Dynamics, Cambridge, MA 02138, USA [email protected], when you speak I feel like a 5 years old in awe to your ability to communicate. Cognition and Artificial Intelligence, Philosophy of AI Dr. Support us! MLST Discord: about the quality on the l. D. Personal self (young child)3. joscha. Joscha Bach: Yes, but I suspect that’s also because. Joscha Bach joins Vance Crowe and discusses how he thinks about being a parent, how he handles interactions with his children and what he hopes and wants for. Joscha Bach — ‘When people say spirituality in the U. I've made this suggestion in a recent paper and two videos (video 1, video 2). The state of the art deep learning models do not really embody understanding. 23 comments Best Top New Controversial Q&A. Dr. S. "Lies we tell kids. He also received his PhD in Cognitive Science from Universitat Osnabruck. Dr. You speak about the things I think in a way I couldn't imagine. . @webdevMason. Lucidity can be achieved by gradually becoming more aware of reality. Bach then discusses the increase in autism and some of the causes of the increases (changes to food, estrogen in the water) of a neural disorders that only occasionally. He is especially interested in. Although AI is discussed, since it's the topic of the podcast, the conversation is primarily about philosophy, reality, existence, and consciousness. <p>Joscha Bach is a rare mind. Bach then gives an exceptional book review about three sci-fi novels: Dune, Foundation and The Three Body Problem. I mean it’s nothing. 3, 2022 01:47:05 Podcasts RSS Link EPISODE ABOUT THIS EPISODE. AltaVista tried to strike a balance between the inconveniences—in terms of. bach@hu-berlin. $3. Joscha Bach Conscious Machines; Strong Ai Why We Should Be Concerned; Synthetic Intelligence; The Ghost in the Machine 35c3; The Learnable Universe; The Man That Sounded the Coronavirus Alarm Joscha Bach Plinz The; The Naked Dialogue Podcast Ep 25 W Joscha Bach Sanjana Singh; The Next. Dr. Understanding why the original project of Artificial Intelligence is widely regarded as a failure and has been abandoned even by most of contemporary AI research itself may prove crucial to achieving synthetic intelligence. I'm definitely going to be re-listening to this episode again; a very. bach@gmail. Conscious Mind, Resonant Brain: How Each Brain Makes a Mind (Hardcover) by. But I know that he is not nearly as popular as he deserves and therefore the position is probably most prominently represented by Keith Frankish's Illusionism (I guess). Topics discussed in this episode include: -Understanding the unive…AI Helps Ukraine - Charity ConferenceA charity conference on AI to raise funds for medical and humanitarian aid for Ukraine. all we have is some lousy podcasts, a few lectures & presentations, and his PhD thesis which is far too dense & inaccessible. به Joscha Bach @plinz AI Researcher On Religion, Autism, Sci-fi Books And Parenting. The researcher Minsky had flagged for Epstein, Joscha Bach, declined repeated requests from me to discuss his ties to Epstein. #313 | Joscha Bach; Mistaken Compassion, Living During a Revolution & Fighting Hopelessness. The Exalted One: Yes, but it is not just cognitive. Enlightened mind7. Lex Fridman Podcast full episode: support this podcast by checking out our sponsors:- Coinbase: The arrival of homo sapiens on Earth amounted to a singularity for its ecosystems, a transition that dramatically changed the distribution and inte. This panel will focusing on AGI transparency, auditability and explainability. e. is a cognitive scientist focused on cognitive architectures, mental representation, emotion, social modeling, and learning. Dr. By integrating motivation and emotion with perception and reasoning, and including grounded neuro-symbolic representations, the Psi contributes significantly to an integrated understanding of the mind. 29 Dec 2022 06:27:32Joscha Bach. Joscha Bach. به Joscha Bach @plinz AI Researcher On Religion, Autism, Sci-fi Books And Parenting. Social self (adolescence, domesticated adult)4. Search & Listen to all the podcasts interviews of anyone on OwlTail. This collection serves as a long-form introduction to formative ideas behind Less Wrong,. Listen to Michael Levin Λ Joscha Bach On The Global Mind, Collective Intelligence, Agency, And Morphogenesis and 172 more episodes by Theories Of Everything With Curt Jaimungal, free! No signup or install needed. Humboldt-Universität zu Berlin. Reactive survival (infant mind)2. Lex: *closes eyes in silence. r/agi. Valheim Genshin Impact Minecraft Pokimane Halo Infinite Call of Duty: Warzone Path of Exile Hollow Knight: Silksong Escape from Tarkov Watch Dogs: Legion. Joscha Bach @plinz AI researcher on religion, autism, sci-fi books and parenting. He has been called the leading philosopher of. He is an artificial intelligence researcher that is sought out by people doing research to understand how the human mind works. Guest lecture by Joscha Bach on the past and future of language models. Joscha Bach believes that AGI is inevitable because it will emerge from civilization, not individuals. . c_o_r_b_a • 3 yr. This is perhaps a bit like physicists in the late 19th century trying to figure out what kind of coal could release the amount of energy. He sat down with VanceThis has been one of my all-time favorite Lex podcasts, and I really hope Joscha Bach gets invited back regularly! Normally I'll listen to podcasts at 2x speed, but this one required slowing down to 1x speed along with occasional pauses just so I could process everything. Joscha Bach (joscha@bach. What is the model of levels of lucidity?. Bach then discusses the increase in autism and some of the causes of the increases (changes to food, estrogen in the water) of a neural disorders that only occasionally creates a super power in high IQ individuals. Joscha Bach @Plinz. chemistry). however, this is why Joscha Bach is even more intelligent than I previously thought. Back Submit. Any social scientist who publishes a heretical view is excommunicated. cm. i haven't dug around his work too much, but it seems like what we currently have hasn't exploited his mind fully yet. Joscha Bach (MIT Media Lab and the Harvard Program for Evolutionary Dynamics) is an AI researcher who works and writes about cognitive architectures, mental representation, emotion, social. Principles of synthetic intelligence : PSI, an architecture of motivated cognition / by Joscha Bach. Jim: Today’s guest is Joscha Bach. Joscha Bach, Ph. verdicchio@unibg. Their unified symmetry is the principle of the universe. If you have iTunes and it doesn’t open automatically, try opening it from your dock or Windows task bar. We try to cover as many aspects of autism as possible, and strive to bring you the latest autism research. Location: London (UK) 28 Feb 2009, 7:42 pm. Bach then discusses the increase in autism and some of the causes of the increases (changes to food, estrogen in the water) of a neural disorders that only occasionally creates a super power in high IQ individuals. Most notably, the PSI architecture includes. Bach then discusses the increase in autism and some of the causes of the increases (changes to food, estrogen in the water) of a neural disorders that only occasionally creates a super power in high IQ individuals. These architectures and their implementation have several lessons for other architectures and models. that is the whole universe. He is an artificial intelligence researcher that is sought out by people doing research to understand how the human mind works. D. Joscha Bach is a rare mind. – Listen to Joscha Bach @plinz AI researcher on religion, autism, sci-fi books and parenting. Joscha Bach is a rare mind. I would highly encourage you to watch the linked video (or any of the others you can find on youtube), he is very good at expressing his thoughts and manages to. Joscha work explores the workings of the human mind, in. Słuchaj podcastu Joscha Bach @plinz AI researcher on religion, autism, sci-fi books and parenting. cognition on par with that of a human being. Joscha Bach. I‘m pretty new to Joscha Bach and his model, less than 24 hours. Over Sensitive Nervous Systems and Autism | ADHD, ASD & Asperger's | Divergence & Outliers | Joscha Bach | 1🗓️22 🤔JNL⚡We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us. If you don’t have iTunes, download it for free. He earned his Ph. Connecting to Apple Music. Exploring theoretical. Both are computable and both are a physics simulation of some sort. Joscha mentions dissociating with the self so much so that needs diminish. Bach also gives an exceptional book review about three sci-fi novels: Dune, Foundation and The Three Body Problem. He sat down with VanceJoscha Bach is a Principal AI Engineer, Cognitive Computing at Intel based in Santa Clara, California. 15 (8 used & new offers) Die Bibel der neuen Generation : Kosmische und kulturelle Meme-Evolution (German Edition)Joscha Bach @Plinz FOLLOWS YOU. About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features NFL Sunday Ticket Press Copyright. Value-Difference Based Exploration: Adaptive Control between Epsilon-Greedy and Softmax― Joscha Bach tags: culture, function, intelligence , lex-fridman. . Link to Lee Cronin's Ted Talk: Ted Talk. 99K subscribers Subscribe 15K views 1 year ago #autism #parenting. List: $54. N. Dr. From the Foreword: "In this book Joscha Bach introduces Dietrich Dorner's PSI architecture and Joscha's implementation of the MicroPSI architecture. Joscha Bach, Cognitive Scientist and AI researcher, as well as Anthony Aguirre, UCSC Professor of Physics, join us to explore the world through the lens of computation and the difficulties we face on the way to beneficial futures. He is an artificial intelligence researcher that is sought out by people doing research to understand how the human mind works. We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us. He formerly held research positions in Cognitive Artificial Intelligence at MIT and Harvard. Clarify the differences between understanding, knowledge and wisdom that could be communicated to a literate twelve-year-old and recommunicated to their parents. is an AI researcher w. A sleepwalker can get up and make dinner. This is the root of the social power of the species, which underlies the social power of the individuals. He is an artificial intelligence researcher that is sought out by people doing research to understand how the human mind works. Let’s peel back the layers to understand the nature of these debates and the nuances they brought to the forefront. ". “Joscha Bach and Delip Rao are both entrepreneurs and researchers at the vanguard of Artificial Intelligence, and we are thrilled to implement their breakthroughs in our protective tools and. The problem is that this society is meritocratic on one hand and presumes morality when humans always and everywhere demonstrate amorality and only morality to the minimum degree that they. " Edge. 99. . Most notably, the PSI architecture includes drives and thus directly addresses questions of emotional. Support this podcast by supporting these sponsors:…Here’s the timestamps for the episode. Joscha Bach, Cognitive Scientist and AI researcher, as well as Anthony Aguirre, UCSC Professor of Physics, join us to explore the world through the lens of computation and the difficulties we face on the way to beneficial futures. He. if you know you know. This collection serves as a long-form introduction to formative ideas behind Less Wrong, the Machine Intelligence Research Institute. Download Audiobooks matching keywords joscha bach to your device. Joscha Bach, as Bach was set to move to MIT’s Media Lab in. Joscha Bach is the “being spanning multiple brains” Dali lama of Nietzsche (sam Harris if you’re reading this, tel him I said that in your inevitable podcast with him, he’ll love it) Having said this, makes me wonder how to do this intentionally. Joscha Bach (MIT Media Lab and the Harvard Program for Evolutionary Dynamics) is an AI researcher who works and writes about cognitive architectures, mental representation. Joscha Bach @Plinz. 4 percent of all situations within a game of virtual robotic soccer have been successfully classified as part of a behavior pattern. D. Program for Evolutionary Dynamics, Harvard University, Cambridge, MA, Priska Herger. This post is an overview of the 7 stages of lucidity as described by cognitive scientist and philosopher Joscha Bach. why joscha bach is even more intelligent than you think, and why we **NEED** him on the sam harris podcast . He is on. . Joscha Bach suggests that much rather than humanoid robots, we are more likely to see AI super-brains developed by countries and larger companies. Jun 13, 2020. Early life and education. Man, he’s unrivaled in how he so easily breaks down complicated notions in just a few words. See new TweetsIn this episode of Machine Learning Street Talk, Tim Scarfe, Yannic Kilcher and Connor Shorten interviewed Harri Valpola, CEO and Founder of Curious AI. Want to Read. In case you didn't have time to listen to Lex Fridman's podcast with Joscha Bach, here is an excerpt of a summary. Personal self (young child)3. This entry was posted in ai on March 11, 2022 by Lex Fridman. Case Based Reasoning is a feasible approach for recognizing and predicting behavior of agents within the RoboCup domain. Bach then discusses the increase in autism and some of the causes of the increases (changes to food, estrogen in the water) of a neural disorders that only occasionally creates a super power in high IQ individuals. He is an artificial intelligence researcher that is sought out by people doing research to understand how the human mind works. Most notably, the PSI architecture includes drives and thus directly addresses. (See the conscious life expo ) Joscha's explanation of it as overfitting seems right to me. He is founder of the MicroPsi project, in which virtual agents are constructed and used in a computer model. He is an artificial intelligence researcher that is sought out by people doing research to understand how the human mind works. de Abstract. 00 am EST; 4. smumb • 1 yr. (16:24) – What is life? (26:33) – Free will. von The Vance Crowe Podcast sofort auf Ihrem. by The Vance Crowe Podcast instantly on your. Tag: Joscha Bach. He received an MA (computer science) from Humboldt-Universität Berlin in 2000 and a PhD (cognitive science) from Osnabrück University in 2006. Joscha Bach. Thanks to Connor Flexman’s summarizing efforts,. We present the broad outlines of a roadmap toward human-level artificial general intelligence (henceforth, AGI). 01:47:05 - Joscha Bach is a rare mind. It’s a simple philosophical model to reflect on how lucid we are in the present moment. These are the stages:1. And when the contribution is negative then the superorganism kills it in order to be fitter in the competition against other superorganisms. by The Vance Crowe Podcast instantly on your. Joscha. . Joscha Bach: It has something to do with the Darwinian legacy of a hunter /prey relation in the competitive struggle for survival. Joscha Bach. Talk by Joscha Bach of the Intel labs Cognitive Computing Group. Joscha Bach writes eloquently on pain. Consciousness, roughly speaking, is what happens when a computational system models itself and the hard problem is caused by that model (and its self-model) only being an approximation of reality. Bruce Parker. . Starting in. Certainly, here are a few specific examples from the transcript that illustrate Joscha Bach’s ideas and their relevance to the field of AI: On the nature of consciousness: Joscha Bach discusses the nature of consciousness and how it relates to AI. Thank you. Lex Fridman Podcast full episode: support this podcast by checking out our sponsors:- Coinbase: Bach is a rare mind. With the growing number of people it's normal that the cost of making them useful is getting too high, so you should see them more as a store of value. 21:04 Joscha’s reaction to the AI Political compass memes. (09:38) – Consciousness. Want to Read. Joscha Bach Center for Integrative Life Sciences, Humboldt University of Berlin, Unter den Linden 6, 10099 Berlin, Germany joscha. More Buying Choices $52. Joscha Bach, Ph. e. Thank you for your insight! I think that dialogical functionality is crucial in the evolution of many of our mental faculties, and certainly in the development of a social persona. paper) 1. These. Host of Lex Fridman Podcast. While they don’t usually wear ties, these types tend, of course, to exhibit all the textbook characteristics of nerdiness—mostly lack of charm, interest in. He is an artificial intelligence researcher that is sought out by people doing research to understand how the human mind works. Vance and Lee talk about famous scientists like Stephan Wolfram (A New Kind of Science) and Joscha Bach. I hadn't even heard of Joscha Bach before viewing the link, so I can't comment on his case in particular. He is an artificial intelligence researcher that is sought out by people doing research to understand how the human mind works. The agent framework uses semantic networks. David Chalmers: Are Large Language Models Conscious?. Physics may be better understood not as modeling physical reality, but as the practice of describing arbitrary systems by short algebraic equations (some not even computable). Most notably, the PSI architecture includes drives and thus directly addresses questions of emotional. Joscha Bach Artificial Intelligence/Cognitive Science San Francisco Bay Area. Joscha Bach (MIT Media Lab and the Harvard Program for Evolutionary Dynamics) is an AI researcher who works and writes about cognitive architectures, mental representation, emotion, social. com . Aug 11, 2023 01:57AM. #312 | Kevin Kelly; Shaping the Future with the Power of Optimism. Listening to him makes me feel a little bit like I am tripping and in awe with existence. harvard. 00:57:57 On Gödel and changing the. Joscha Bach (photos from Wikimedia commons ). Thank you. The engineer behind this software is called Joscha Bach, a cognitive scientist, specializing in artificial intelligence. December 2015 COCO'15: Proceedings of the 2015th International Conference on Cognitive Computation: Integrating Neural and Symbolic Approaches - Volume 1583. Lex Fridman Podcast. He sat down with Vance Crowe for a second tim. e. . Visiting Professor, Stevens Institute of Technology; Author, The Power of the Sea: Tsunamis, Storm Surges, and Our Quest to Predict Disasters. Joscha Bach. Replying to . Doctor of Philosophy, University Osnabrück, Germany, 2006. Proceedings (Lecture Notes in Computer Science, 7716) by. You‘ve got no basic right to force me to suffer existence. Joscha Bach is the VP of Research at the AI Foundation, previously doing research at MIT and Harvard. The scientist partially based his work on the hypothesis which believes reality is a simulation. @Plinz. Joscha Bach, Cognitive Scientist and AI researcher, as well as Anthony Aguirre, UCSC Professor of Physics, join us to explore the world through the lens of computation and the difficulties we face on the way to beneficial futures. The Exalted One: Yes, but it is not just cognitive. Joscha Bach's Computational Meta-Psychologist (Paper Walls): YouTube. D. It could be that one receptor type is underperforming, one type of neurotransmitter is not synthesized in your gut, or your motivational biases are not wired up in the standard way or other things. He’s previously been a research scientist. . Joscha deserves. He said; In a society where you leverage yourself very far over an entropic abyss, without land on the other side, it's relatively clear that your counter-levels, at some point, are. Joscha Bach mention's Paul Graham's blog post. it usually refers to the phantom limb that they develop in the absence of culture. ( 11 ) $88. He is an artificial intelligence researcher that is sought out by people doing research to understand how the human mind works. ago. . 4 percent of. Sponsors: The Anagoge Podcast can be found also saying that our self is the model the brain makes about itself, or in another context, the regulation function of different sub-systems acting together to achieve a common goal, which are ideas I find align nicely with no-self. Dr. Joscha Bach, Ph. Exploring theoretical physics, consciousness, and artificial intelligence. I’m Lucas Perry. I'm more of a Penrose/Hoffman guy. Lucidity refers to mental clarity. Instead, Joscha seems to witness his discovery of truth while eating popcorn. Joscha Bach is the VP of Research at the AI Foundation, previously doing research at MIT and Harvard. The God that Joscha thinks exists and is evil, is a god Christians wouldn't believe in. and 294 more episodes by The Vance Crowe Podcast, free! No signup or. Joscha Bach was born in Eastern Germany, and he studied computer science and philosophy at Humboldt University in Berlin and computer science at Waikato University in New Zealand. The motto of the Club was inspired by the late artist-philosopher James Lee Byars: "To arrive at the edge of the world's knowledge, seek out the most complex and sophisticated minds, put them in a room together, and have them ask each other the questions they are asking themselves. Advertisement Coins. Continue reading Transcript. Jan. Joscha is a research scientist at the MIT Media Lab. your passwordJoscha Bach is the VP of Research at the AI Foundation, previously doing research at MIT and Harvard. The proposed book adapts Psi theory to cognitive science and artificial intelligence, by elucidating both its theoretical and technical frameworks, and clarifying its contribution to how the authors have come to understand cognition. From Artificial Intelligence to Artificial Consciousness. NFL NBA. Joscha Bach is a German Cognitive Science & Artificial Intelligence researcher. In the videos, I have also used an image comparison showing the similarity between the structure of the. Visiting Professor, Stevens Institute of Technology; Author, The Power of the Sea: Tsunamis, Storm Surges, and Our Quest to Predict Disasters. Even as well thought out as Joscha is. You can often recognize adhd, high functioning autism and sociopathy in early childhood. By examining the broader picture and overlap of current artificial neural networks, theoretical computer science and systems neuroscience, this workshop will uncover. I'm STILL looking for someone more salient than him, he's the first person I've heard in 35+ years of life that seems to understand and explain everything with 0 bullshit. Joscha Bach joins Vance Crowe and discusses how he thinks about being a parent, how he handles interactions with his children and what he hopes and wants for. Everything Is Computation. Joscha Bach is the VP of Research at the AI Foundation, previously doing research at MIT and Harvard. Support this podcast by signing up with these sponsors: - ExpressVPN at. Bach discusses what happens if a parent.